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20180111 Caroline St Apts Correspondance (2) Saratoga Springs Preservation Foundation October 18,2017 Mr. Steve Rowland,Chair Design Review Commission F o R �� City Hall PRESERVATION 474 Broadway FOR... . :VF die/YEARS Saratoga Springs,NY 12866 it r, •r RE:24 Caroline Street Dear Steve: I. II The Saratoga Springs Preservation Foundation has reviewed the application for the proposed exterior changes and addition at 24 Caroline Street. The Italianate style commercial structure,c, 1970,is a"contributing building"to the Broadway Board of Directors Historic District in the National Register of Historic Places. Matthew E.Veitch President The Foundation appreciates the opportunity it had to provide comments and that many of its James Cold initial concerns have been addressed. The Foundation is pleased that the historic Caroline Street Vice President storefront entrance will be retained and that the entry to the second floor will be preserved. Linda Harvey-Opiteck The Foundation does not object to the removal of the historic two-story rear addition,provided Treasurer that the applicant,as indicated in correspondence to the Foundation,meets the requirements as Alicia Czwerwinsld outlined in the ordinance and documents why it cannot be preserved. Secretary Caroline done The Foundation also does not object to the proposed addition. However,the Foundation feels Cynthia Corbett that it needs a more prominent cornice than what is depicted in the submitted drawings. While Brennan Drake several buildings south on Putnam Street do not have a cornice,an informal survey of cornices in Adam N.Favro a.2 mile radius of the 24 Caroline Street found that 60%(16/27)of the buildings had prominent, Liz Israel Samantha Kercull deep cornices—some detailed,others not—see attached. The architect stated in correspondence Douglas Kerr to the Foundation that a more substantial cornice would compete with the existing cornice at 24 Richard King Caroline Street. However,the cornice of the addition would not be immediately adjacent to the Michelle Paquette-Deuel Cindy Spence ornate cornice 24 Caroline Street, Furthermore,the buildings in the surrounding neighborhood Bill Willard typically have different style cornices that rather than"compete"with each other,complement Meredith Woolford one another and add to the overall architectural fabric of the neighborhood. Furthermore,many of the buildings south on Putnam Street were historically more utilitarian in nature,providing James Kettlewell services to those buildings along Broadway. The addition,which reads as an individual building, emeritus will serve as a prominent residence,not a utilitarian service building, Thus,the building should have a cornice that gives it more prominence. Samantha Bosshart Executive Director The Foundation remains concerned about the treatment of the south wall.It needs more visual interest.The Foundation looks forward to seeing more detail regarding its treatment. Thank you in advance for your thoughtful consideration. Sincerely, /141060......( pplitte Clit(01•0/404.04€.4—(761.01tel-Ai Matthew E.Veitch Samantha Bosshart President Executive Director 112 Spring Street, Suite 203 Cc: 24 Caroline Street Owners,LLC Saratoga r;ngs. NY 12866Michael Tuck—Balzer&Tuck Architecture,Agent 518-587-5030 \iww,car.$rigz,i ig.s rt.,tiot. 01,.. Cornices _ _.,,, .• _,..,......„....Mb 1141.W.IIII 11,O.-_ _ ' • - . P t F ' 11 • 4 Caroline Street ,- �- r (Trotters) '1.4 y• r ...if—, [-1 j j[r 7'. ,p1 ...Jr"' , r 2. 47 Caroline Street (Karvalh) ..._ - . i•:....._ i*- - WmitiMPRPIr -11101r .,,._ • . , , yp •. , . _ _.. ,_ r. I ‘7„ 1._ _H _ _ _ _ _ r _,,,._z_ _ ,,_ 1_,___I _ . p - iii 1 1 i __ , ._ „ _ { ti - _ — ��.0•0r 4 CarolineStreet ter{ _ - £y I (HookahBar) VII.6N. i n--- - 6 -� . 42 Caroline Street p9�7:. [ 1 ice-- - 10 F- r (Up in Smoke) ''CIS"i -- . 38 Caroline Street 1 . _L.- .. 1 r .: - ,I1:1 :1 7;.. i (Dango's) . a I 47 ,L, k.,.___,, ,, i .-1 _ .ailt 1,,i • -_ - , _ i - = M L._ ,.- -__. ._ _ _.._ ilib - u. iii ' 1/2 CarolineStreet . gl _ r ' �r, Sperm ___— 1 4 , r..._ , Ilb,, Caroline streetN. __. --_ Al . p ,.,,. [I: $rs (Hamlet&Ghost) I sa, ( -- _ i ' '1. — { ¶ o?i ;: thr:et.- Iiii MI L....... . ,..4.4,- r 4,.1."14 ,-, fir4, II __ .., . 11. i: :.: 11 i -' I Le'. A dr ' 111111' - : L i le..,; Nimi NI .,„i , ,R• c � �'. - 1 Cornices " - . 1 -21 Caroline Street7-0,....--, 12■ 436 Broadway - , t# 1�� iR .A _ - (City Taver (Caroline fain) 1''' . ' -..P.=fi: • --- .. .- . i S . �_ I 1•1114. - I I . e - I/ ...• 1 ' V i'..- -- — , —.1--;:— , _. irbilit _ i.,,,075 • . .,,&:''.."1&191E. ir- iiirf! i„' 1 1 hit .i id 111 AJ .1, L v • --: - - — 11 .r 1 13. 438Broadway ■ X . 16 Caroline Street � A ■ (Lifestyles) 1..` L L �� (Gaffneys) i Ii - ■ -• r y 11 L..' ..,::;::::.::::•';R. •" , _ " 1 Y f — — 14. (9 Maple Avenue 10. 12 10Caroline Street r 1 1 -. . I,. . . # . (9 Maple) it. F (Desperate Annie's, the `: 'lig- Ii Vault and Bourbonam � . ■ 1 ,y ISI i 1 I C. 1 ■ ig • I, ; IN 4Cug 14:441 - d _ 1 - _ I I . , -1rT �= 15■ 1 Maple Avenue .- ■ (Sinclair Saratoga) 1 I. - Caroline Street ,. T• i ,. pmivilmfiximpir,_.__ _______...: I! T (Caroline Street Pub _ r i. 4 mL i ....',.7........,7'. 16. 37 Phila Street 'V'I - 1 4 1 ..... !...I , , _ ...• ., .. J- (Baileys) - - ----17 -,_ , .- - -- alt.„. r Air 2ii - '... 99 15 9 9 14 .-Z 10 998 9 %,._. 9 _ 2 —• 7—aro lindo, _ 9 9 , • . , - ......„ 5 i.-- • 7.7. , "..-4, 4 9 „.....„ ...• . 4? _... . ., . „ . ...,...,_,. %,.._.., ..._ r..„..„ r-.. r7.1. ru ..... ›,,... ....,, L-. ,n C -1:- --,... Level 1 -_ . - \,.....e• 16 ci.. ......,_,. I hisil st E ,_,....” c .6.....- z ---. ..„.._.,.. C. J., • ' -ir,ttoga Spring, Preservation Foundation December 6, 2017 Mr. Steve Rowland,Chair 6-Wee Design Review Commission FOR City Hall PRESERVATION 474 Broadway FOP, - _:YEARS Saratoga Springs,NY 12866 7 RE: 24 Caroline Street—Exterior Changes and Construction of New Addition k'\ . \ Dear Steve: V i The Saratoga Springs Preservation Foundation has reviewed the revised drawings for the __ addition at 24 Caroline Street. __'4. In the letter that the Foundation submitted on October 18,2017, the Foundation expressed concern about the cornice and the need for a more prominent treatment. and provided an informal Board of Directors survey of cornices in a .2 mile radius of 24 Caroline Street that found that 60% (16/27)of the buildings had prominent, deep cornices—some detailed,others not. The revised drawings show Matthew E.Veitch a simple cornice with a total depth of 4 1/8", which the Foundation feels is weak and not President reflective of the majority of buildings in the immediate neighborhood. The Foundation reiterates James Gold its concern that the addition to 24 Caroline Street needs a much more prominent cornice. Vice President Linda Harvey-Opiteck In addition, the Foundation prefers the decorative detail that was shown in the previous Treasurer drawings dated October 10,2017 —the two rows of cast stone banding above the 3 ' story Alicia Czwerwinski windows rather than a single full-width cast stone detail directly below the 4th story Secretary windows. The detail of the previous rending gives the building greater visual interest. The Foundation also prefers the window configuration where the narrower windows are on the Caroline Cardone Cynthia Corbett outside of the ribbon of windows rather than on the inside. Brennan Drake Adam N.Favro Thank you in advance for your thoughtful consideration. Liz Israel Samantha KercuIl Douglas Ken Sincerely, Richard King Michelle Paquette-Deuel 11,40tAir.......e. p:imitt Cindy Spence Bill Willard Meredith Woolford Matthew E.Veitch (Samantha Bosshart President _ Executive Director James Kettlewell emeritus Cc: 24 Caroline Street Owners, LLC Michael Tuck—Balzer&Tuck Architecture, Agent Samantha Bosshart Executive Director Enclosures: October, 18 2017 SSPF Letter Cornice Survey 112 spring strect, suit, 2113 SaratopA SprIng,, NY 12866 518-587-5030 Sar,ttoga Spriii $.-s- Preservation Foundation October 18,2017 Mr. Steve Rowland,Chair 5( ;?V'' FOR ffir Design Review Commission City Hall PRESERVATION 474 Broadway !9 /YEARS Saratoga Springs,NY 12866 -1.Vir It RE:24 Caroline Street ir, si Dear Steve: %.. 11 The Saratoga Springs Preservation Foundation has reviewed the application for the proposed exterior changes and addition at 24 Caroline Street. The Italianate style commercial structure,C. 1970,is a"contributing building"to the Broadway Board of Directors Historic District in the National Register of Historic Places. Matthew E.Veitch President The Foundation appreciates the opportunity it had to provide comments and that many of its James Gold initial concerns have been addressed. The Foundation is pleased that the historic Caroline Street Vice President storefront entrance will be retained and that the entry to the second floor will be preserved. Linda Harvey-Opiteck The Foundation does not object to the removal of the historic two-story rear addition,provided Treasurer that the applicant,as indicated in correspondence to the Foundation,meets the requirements as Alicia Cz-werwinski outlined in the ordinance and documents why it cannot be preserved. Secretary Caroline Cardone The Foundation also does not object to the proposed addition. However,the Foundation feels Cynthia Corbett that it needs a more prominent cornice than what is depicted in the submitted drawings. White Brennan Drake several buildings south on Putnam Street do not have a cornice,an informal survey of cornices in Adam N.FavTo a.2 mile radius of the 24 Caroline Street found that 60%(16/27)of the buildings had prominent, Liz Israel Samantha Kercull deep cornices—some detailed,others not—see attached. The architect stated in correspondence Douglas Kar to the Foundation that a more substantial cornice would compete with the existing cornice at 24 Richard King Michelle Paquctte-Deuel Caroline Street. However,the cornice of the addition would not be immediately adjacent to the Cindy Spence ornate cornice 24 Caroline Street Furthermore,the buildings in the surrounding neighborhood Bill Willard typically have different style cornices that rather than"compete"with each other,complement m credith woolford one another and add to the overall architectural fabric of the neighborhood. Furthermore,many of the buildings south on Putnam Street were historically more utilitarian in nature,providing James Kettlewell services to those buildings along Broadway. The addition,which reads as an individual building, emeritus will serve as a prominent residence,not a utilitarian service building. Thus,the building should have a cornice that gives it more prominence. Samantha Bosshart Executive Director The Foundation remains concerned about the treatment of the south wall.It needs more visual interest.The Foundation looks forward to seeing more detail regarding its treatment Thank you in advance for your thoughtful consideration. Sincerely, Matthew E.Veitch S;i ; •tha Bosshart President Executive Director 112 Spring Street. Stitte 2(13 Cc: 24 Caroline Street Owners,LLC Saratoga Springs. NY 12866 Michael Tuck—Balzer&Tuck Architecture,Agent 518-587-503u Cornices ...„ "`t•'I..'moi • . • m _ . Am,imm....r.....t...L ma., i.,"' 11111411a sib... ' . ..- ik 4 4 = , - �,, - — . .' -iiiCaroline Street },R — (Trotters) :i rf-'�1011.1111 . f I �"."` tune Street ,, \ , „, . ,Itiv. ,... :,, . Illii n t (Karvalli) 11111111111 �n# 1,.+m' e t Mite II 1r'i * /I' i _:•y A, ` A �. f I / ,......r. i i i q1. '.-MORIN., 4 - . ' 3. &met �¢ �� _ (Hookah Bar) # it OF,. 4 rii __ . Ar-0. ,-....._---- . - ,-, \ , •...„, E 4. 42 Caroline Street .. ,- l (Upin Smoke) __ :, .. Carlin rpt .,_, . ,- . . " : .,, ,.. ,,, lail I ! , ,,,t . ill J ,' ' , .. - Dan s ft, I 9 iii. rr J w k «; 1 - 1 • :�_ ,.4 1 lir •-4k- . . _ — ..._____ _._ ______ ._, - ,. , - 6. 30 112 Caroline Street ' illikki :- . __._ . (SPenes} ' ._ t vi-,' . -' , 11110i Caroline Street .. . w .,, ... _ . . - ..• , „. Iii ;i `' (Hamlet Ghost) ,ti Both show the cornice the .11 iii 111 III1 „,.7,i:I 1 ,...., , .1_,...: rt, ... ..--- d molish l 30 Caroline Wit. -.JR . trio 1 , \ r t-11111:'L , .: 4,-.Is Elf�1Y, , Q _ } �'"9._ { 14 -- '- 1 - ,sem Cornices _________ _ - r _ �� - 8. 19-21 Caroline Street '" $ -` 1 . 436 B ed r e ik .—.� 7. t - -,...,7--,. '. - (Caroline Main)Li--; _.....jaw Ilk '-f----7.iii to, — Zi "... i. , , 4.41-_-' ,,,,=7-, Ibir.'--14-, 1,/ -:. __\17 , ,41 .� JI .i. ,.___:-_____4, . i �' -Jam.isipr., IT 1 r 11 isil ... / r -t Ili.,!. 111 .N. 0n. 1 . 438Broadway . 16Caroline Stet igs. . 41/4'...... (Gaffneys) .71' '''-, '4.4' . (Lifestyles) • 4_,— _ ,-54 i il 'i 1 Rti r .g 4 IMr 1 - • 14. (9 Maple Avenue �A _ 1 . 12 10 Caroline Street ,�r ., i .., A., (9 Maple) nnre(Desperate � � , .. tr L - I-, ) ., - , 4 + Vault and Bourbon Room) � ---- - 0.7-"Li 1:4 irk--tf Li ,, �, ,"_ _ ,., _... _ I 7 ' - 4: . ' iir.. —- .\\''. ,Air- .::iiit. s f"''' . ITO T MI • I - , AI . ,... - e:!..if: . . . _ .. i - iN -,:s-ir, , a 4- - lit - ,_,.. . iii, -I w ___ ____ , . ., ,... ire f .� - u 1 . 1 Maple Avenue 0-t, . I . !-r (Sinclair Saratoga) 1.4111E, . 1 -. 7.--,:7..11.'1 .''—.". ir . ... —r, —,=.--L‘ (Caroline Street Pub 'i - 'i' ----- - l if 4'4f41.a w it. i. `F . ,__ ,,. -.-._ _ _ i T_ — 401...;,- - . ,,rAsir" - 16. 37 Phila Street li • :_i .t, iii,,A...**, *i? - ... .....2.0"' - (Baileys) } -1,- ,ii; it, lif 1 9 L2 14 15 1 13 1 10 9 1 2 7 6 99 4 3 Level 1 - - \-44 16 dt COMMENTS FOLLOWING DECEMBER 6, 2017 MEETING REGARDING 24 CAROLINE ST APARTMENTS Thank you for your patience. Please forgive this late submission. I am learning. I mistakenly assumed that this project was going to come up in a future meeting. That said, the following research may prove helpful for future projects. BLACK METAL ELEMENT IN 24 CAROLINE ST DESIGN The proposed plan for the 24 Caroline St apartments includes a 40'H X 9'W strip of black corrugated metal: 111lir MI 11 mil fEl � El 7 El 7 .71 El El El IHI!IIII1„mi.-. H Iii !!! • c This sets several precedents for the surrounding neighborhood. PRECEDENTS SET BY 40X9' RECTANGLE OF METAL SIDING: 1. the interior stairwell has a serious visual impact on the façade 2. the façade includes an unbroken 40x9' rectangle which is black 3. the use of industrial corrugated metal as an architectural element on the façade Looking around the neighborhood: Comptons V Max London's - LI Sarato 11. Gelato 9 take Ave .2' toga Coffee Traders 9 sowt,„ ..;;- 0 i-- Pavilion Grand o) 9 Comfort Kitchen ± e7i 91 o The Sarato. ity Tavern - fielQ.? Henry! Putnam Market 9 -tds el -Sports Ba raft Beer --? z- - t Pub v 9 ci.r Saratoga F and Sip Sti 9 9 Desperate An- - ` 9 Karavalli The Wine Bar 'Cantina r' . 9 Regional Cuisine er 9 9 - D'Andrea's Pizza 9 im 9 Kilwins Gaffney's T Sperry's ro s 0, Putnam Den s 9 The Ice House Dangos Fitzgerald cb, o 9 Irish Steak 01 co'L 9 Gam --ner Li) Uncommon Grounds Coffee&Tea ig ,11 0 9 Boca Bistro cJ z 9 Entrance/Exit Saratoga Springs The Magic Moon Public Library Four Seasons Natural Foods ?I Ravenous 9 .... Hattie's . _ co 9 Tobacconists 9 Phi a . • 67 cs 9 . E, z 9 Harvey's Restaurant and Bar 91 - CI Phila St Saratoga Tea& Ben 8,Jerry's 9 9 1 Honey Company rtLa-1-.....--Li---ii-n... PRECEDENT ONE: THE STAIRWELL HAS A SERIOUS VISUAL IMPACT ON THE FACADE All downtown buildings more than one story high necessarily have a stairwell (or elevator). In general the stairwell is set in such as way as to not visually impact the façade. 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' 7 1 ••••—• i r- ---• .•N �- �',' il �t• a 7' i_' ' .-�wsow!��iia�i M 4 ,:-t:7 '' '.'4."- 11.1 Itil . .-_ P. , - - i' %,.1/4,,,,.. .... 1 ,� . j i, 4 . /.. ,iiii L -42„„,,,i.. : s _ - - - , i , r 4 - - - -0 mrilif' # =lult , - .-- 2 , t.' — '•. iiiii. e .. 1 ...„,„ • -.ale I, i.........? 1 .....zak --...."Ar.........__ r: Allirall "N '' d NIL lit gir 1. R s i 11 C M"o IM I A 74i This is the ONLY building in the immediate neighborhood, new or old, where the stairwell/elevator shaft clearly has impact on the fagade as viewed from the street. In this case, the enclosed elevator shaft is behind Caffe Lena's big, lovely new 2 -story entrance with a courtyard. The elevator shaft is a pale cream color like a cloudy sky, and it blends in with the back end of the building. There is a cornice up top as a nod to neighborhood historic style. All of this means the visual impact of this enclosed elevator shaft on the street view is minimal. PRECEDENT TWO: THE FACADE INCLUDES AN UNBROKEN BLACK 40x9' RECTANGLE Let's look around the neighborhood at the use of black. BLACK AWNINGS Black is frequently used for awnings — which are thin, at an angle, and sometimes flutter in the wind — so have a lighter more delicate visual impact. ti 1 i Emma ffi� I Ar _.tn 4w BLACK AS A BACKDROP FOR SIGNS Black is frequently used as a flat surface color to offset a sign: '41 oil 614� - I All� ■ ■ ilk- BLACK USED FOR WINDOW AND DOOR MOULDINGS See above examples as well. 'mew .... i t OFAL ` OPP .f�T _'��i?bv -_p'a'ir:-_ _v.��i:�ir •• .��y _.. _-, +.yr► _ -'E �y��? . L 11 F� BLACK USED FOR COLUMNS AND METAL DECORATION 4O /i*00; _ rr• v �. an !� o■ R % �w • w" NMI' . y i� MW i n ... all I NO NO me me ow •rs RM ALM 1635 SF COMMERCIAL 0 CONDO I RETgIINo RESTAURANT $pq `moi FOR SgIE DR LEASE i � �I -SE Tp pwN ;�:� r- �_ ��l+FiAi'•fyi i 1 i i i �a� THERE IS NO PRECEDENT FOR AN UNBROKEN SIMILAR SIZE BLACK RECTANGLE In this neighborhood, black has been used for many decorative elements but never as an unbroken expanse of similar size to 40x9'. The columns, mouldings, sign panels and other decorative uses of black are relatively delicate and smaller. PRECEDENT THREE: THE USE OF INDUSTRIAL CORRUGATED METAL ON THE FACADE Choice of the material for the 40x9' rectangle: - ---------------- INTERNATIONAL, INC METAFOR CONCEALED FASTENER CCRUGAT'L__'D METAL SID!NG, 3" SPACING, BLACK This corrugated metal is the sort used for roll -up garage doors, below shown in an indoor commercial storage facility: �rpwwm lxzm;� IIN The brown metal grate shown is in fact approximately 32'H x 8'W which is 250 square feet. This is almost as large as the black corrugated metal 40'H x 9'W proposed, at 360 square feet. EARLY BUILDINGS ON PUTNAM STREET Let's look at buildings between Caroline and Phila in photos dating from the early 1900s. (All early photos below are from the Bolster Collection at the Saratoga Springs History Museum.) Bolster Collection, Saratoga Springs History Museum Above we see the City Tavern building on far left. The "Saratoga Taxi" building stands where the Library parking lot is now. Saratoga Taxi is an industrial sort of building, but it has a quirky honey elegance from the windows and a fun shape: 1 r TA X G ARA GE -� ~h. 'off •.. - +�•� - _ 77 ft -- W, 4, VIRMETTVIAM Elm ell- -PA .m-7, �%* iry ---ice . � "I Now look at the other direction, towards Bailey's building on the corner. Saratoga Taxi (today the Library parking lot) in the middle: J i. . .,w - Look at the circular sign on left which says "Motorcycles." Now look below, at the circular "motorcycles" sign on left: w •s. r T a ja w - There was a tram line running through the today's Library parking lot and curving onto Putnam. Note the buildings across the street in today's Putnam Den parking lot. This (above) industrial "Laundry" and "Lumber Yard" sort of building has its own elegance, with the cornice and nice windows. Below, the NY Telephone Company did in fact have a building (note the Bell on the hanging flag) on Putnam, but it was a far more elegant building than today's National Grid building. '*4% IFby I ^1 'r 1. Bailey's building had a big awning: For fun, let's look up Caroline St around the corner, to see the businesses that now have become taverns. The below photo is dated 1944: INK r it MOMMME1 SHOP DEVQE PAINT ES t OPS I Or Alm w I r Putnam Street in fact had a sort of homey elegance. It wasn't as upscale as Broadway but it was full of homey buildings with elegant touches. All of the craftsmanship shows human effort. These structures were created before modern machines existed that could craft an expanse like the black metal at 24 Caroline St. MID -20TH CENTURY INDUSTRIAL BUILDINGS The current National Grid building came later. Its metal grate thus represents the later, mid -20th century phase of Saratoga history. i I RECENT FACADE CHANGES ON CAROLINE STREET In the past ten years, there have been many facade changes around the corner on Caroline Street. New paint, new siding and trim, new windows, the new entrance to Esperanto, the new railing of the City Tavern entrance. Let's look at them for their use of black. All of the below photos show recent facade changes. _ T tom:. 1 r � 104 iiVVll r. r '� 00 "FE #.. �1 RES E R VIF tr ONO� pool Bou BOU BOLq IL a ham - i �. 9 ALL OF THESE RENOVATIONS INCORPORATE BLACK ACCENTS. NONE OF THESE RENOVATIONS INCORPORATE LARGE INDUSTRIAL ELEMENTS The only large expanses of metal are the metal columns — which echo the early columned porches in the downtown hotels. FINAL NOTE: THE BLACK METAL ELEMENT PROPOSED IS NOT HIDDEN IIXT cuAnn«l Let's look back at the proposed black metal design element. -_ ■ I M 1 1 f T r i f f-"- _ Note that this is the West facing fagade. It will get afternoon sunlight. Rumara Jewett rumara(a,mac.com 518 424 4198