HomeMy WebLinkAbout20240590 400 Louden Rd. Site Plan Minutes into a niche market— classic cars and trucks. They would be storing 5 or 6 cars inside. No
cars will be stored outside. The building will have an office and a bathroom. They will modify
the same signage that was used for the appliance store that was previously in that space.
The vehicles will be delivered by flatbed — 1 or 2 cars.
Mark Pingel, Chair opened the Public Hearing at 6:34 p.m. There were no comments on
this application. Mark closed the Public Hearing at 6:34 p.m.
There was a discussion between the Chair and Staff regarding SEQRA review and if it was
determined that it is a Type II action it would not require SEQRA. Leah Everhart said the
board can adopt a motion finding that it's a Type II action and no further SEQRA review is
warranted.
Chuck Marshall made a motion that the action be classified Type II based on the fact that it's
repurposing of an existing structure. The motion was seconded by Patty Morrison. Vote 5-
0 in favor, Motion Carried.
Chuck Marshall made a motion to grant the applicant a Special Use Permit for the operation
of inside automobile sales per the application. The motion was seconded by Michael King.
Discussion: Michael King said for the record, this is a small business now, but if it were to
expand to a full-blown car dealership with cars outside and a larger building it would not fit in
this neighborhood. Patty Morrison said the applicant would need to submit a new application.
Vote 5-0 in favor, Motion Carried.
Mark Pingel, Chair noted that the applicant needs to submit a Site Plan Review application
and it will be reviewed administratively by Chair and Staff.
4. #20230861 400 Louden Rd. Unitarian Universalist Congregation, Special Use Permit
for a place of worship in the Rural Residential (RR) district.
Mark Pingel, Chair asked the applicant to give an update on 400 Louden Rd. He said the
board will see where we are now relative to its content and then move on to public comment
based on the updated information. Public comment and SEQRA remain open.
Sue Davis SD Atelier Architecture. Sue said she was not at the official last meeting due to
a family health issue. She said she attended the workshop and the sketch plan review in
October 2023. Sue presented a quick power point with renderings to the Board.
N otes:
• Deeded conservation area with a significant buffer that cannot be touched. Sue said
the identity of the church is to preserve and respect nature and integrate in with the
site as much as possible.
• Sue talked about the surrounding community — residential subdivision, Louden Rd.
back of BJ's, Jewish Temple, woods, hospice building with a residential feel to it on the
corner of Louden Rd. On the other side is a stop sign and trees.
• The access to Bog Meadow Road has been eliminated.
• The footprint of the church has been reduced by about 15% (600 sq. ft.)
• The building is intended to nestle into the context of the site, using materials that are
natural in nature and residential in scale.
City of Saratoga Springs—Planning Board Minutes—January 11,2024- Page 3 of 17
• The entire footprint is 3,600 sq. ft.
• The overall height will be +/- 32'.
• The intent with the materials and colors is to respect the integrity of the church and
blend into the surroundings. Their mission and philosophy are to be mindful of nature.
Sue pointed out the following key points:
• 5 acres of land — 1.9 developable.
• Significant buffer (250 ft. permanent conservation easement) between church and
development.
• Structure meant to blend into nature.
• Precedent of other churches in a neighborhood context.
Jeff Anthony, Studio A addressed the site issues:
• After hearing complaints from neighbors, the applicant removed Bog Meadow from the
site plan.
• Two neighborhoods — Louden Road Corridor, 45 mph posted speed limit with
commercial uses on the north side and mostly vacant on the south side with a few
residential buildings. Jeff said this is the neighborhood the church is in. The second
community is once you turn onto Bog Meadow Run and into the subdivision. There is
significant buffering between the church and the subdivision. The church purchased 5
acres, 3 are in a conservation easement and 1.9 are for the church.
• Traffic/speed on Louden Road; turning distance off of Louden Road; traffic generated
from the church. Jeff said they measured sight distance on Louden Rd. and there is
1,556 ft. of sight distance looking east from the church's entrance driveway and 1,666
looking west. Jeff consulted ITT traffic manual guidelines; at 45 mph you need 376 ft.
to stop a car. At 50 mph you need 453 ft. to stop a car. Jeff said even at 5 mph over
the speed limit there is three times the stopping distance required according to ITT
traffic manual. Jeff said even at 55 or 60 mph there is still more than two times the
stopping distance.
• Activity level of the church; 125 +/- parishioners. Weekly average attendance is about
80 people. Divide 80 by 2 people per car = 40 cars coming to the church. They arrive
on Sunday morning at 9:00 a.m. and leave at 12 noon. That's the only service
scheduled weekly. The only other activity might be a club that meets on an evening
for about 10 people. The pastor and a part-time assistant work daily. Chuck
Marshall noted that the planning board does not have jurisdiction over the driveway.
The Town of Wilton will regulate the driveway placement.
• Water usage —when the Newman subdivision was reviewed by the planning board a
hydrogeological study was done and shown to the Department of Health and
concluded: there are 2 aquifers on the site, upper and lower. "Both aquifers have the
potential to supply ground water to any individual lot in this subdivision." Jeff said
according to ENCON a church is a place of worship and the seating capacity requires
3 gallons of water a day per person. If classified as general assembly, it's 5 gallons
per day per person. Five gallons per day x 80 people = 400 gallons per day of water
usage from 9:00 to noon on Sunday because there's no other use on the property.
Homes in the subdivision require 110 gallons of water per day, per bedroom (4
BR=440 gallons per day). The church uses less than one household of water in 3
hours on a Sunday morning, and hardly any water the rest of the week.
• Visibility of the church from the development— Sue Davis said there's a large buffer of
trees around the building and a walkout basement. The chapel at Skidmore college
was the inspiration for the church.
City of Saratoga Springs—Planning Board Minutes—January 11,2024- Page 4 of 17
Kerry Mayo joined the meeting at approximately 6:45 p.m.
Mark Pingel, Chair opened the floor for public comment.
Bill Matthews, 36 Bog Meadow Run Rd. Bill said the church will be right behind him and he
will likely be impacted the most. Bill said he's concerned about his privacy and his well water
being affected. The overflow parking is on dirt and close by his well. He's worried that cars
could leak oil, etc. Bill said the applicant said it won't affect the re-sale value of his home but
he said he wouldn't have bought there if he knew there would be a church on the property
nearby. Bill said all the activities going on at the church will negatively impact him. The cars
speeding on Louden Rd. are a problem and the church will add to that.
Rob Jess, 7 Bog Meadow Run. Rob said since the last public hearing on November 30,
2023 they submitted a petition signed by 34 of the neighbors on December 30t" in opposition
of the project. They also submitted an alternative review of the six criteria deciding whether
to issue the special use permit. In Rob's opinion he doesn't believe that this project meets
any of the 6 criteria, therefore the board should not approve this project. Rob said they also
submitted a response to the applicant's response to public comments from November 30t" on
January 10, 2024. Rob said they are saying the church is not part of the Bog Meadow Run
neighborhood and at the same time they're saying churches are ok in residential areas. Rob
displayed a map of the 5-lot subdivision that was approved as a single-family residential
subdivision, which was consistent with the Bog Meadows subdivision, where the applicant
wants to locate their church. For the church to separate it from the rest of the subdivision is
self-serving.
Patty Morrison asked Bill Matthews if he had any trees on his property. He said he does
not. Patty commented that Bill would see whatever was built in the subdivision.
Julie Holmberg, 21 Summerfield Lane. Julie said she is a member of the Unitarian
Universalist Congregation. She said the church really wants to be good neighbors. Julie said
this property was on the market for over 500 days and it appeared that was because it was
across from BJ's and the mall and is on the corridor. There's property on the other side of
Bog Meadow that is meant to be the Methodist Church conference center. Julie said she's a
little dismayed because churches and schools are an important part of a community. The
proposed church building is beautiful, and trees will be planted all around. Julie said she
lives on a 2-acre lot within Knolls Spring Park and sees neighbors and other people's houses.
She said the proposed church is on the corridor on a very busy road and not in the Bog
Meadow development.
Art Holmberg, church member, 21 Summerfield Lane. Art said at the last public hearing
some of the Bog Meadows residents implied that the church was secretly or quietly trying to
do this without their knowledge. He said 18 letters were sent out to all the people within 250
ft. of the proposed project as required by the City Ordinance. Art said they also did a
walkaround in the neighborhood. Art noted that there are two neighborhoods here — the
Louden Rd. corridor (BJ's at 406 Louden, proposed church at 400 Louden & 396 Louden with
a special use permit in place), and Bog Meadows. Art said many of the 31 people who
signed the petition don't live even within a half mile of the church's site. Art said when they
first did their walkaround and talked to the immediate neighbors, four of the six were very
City of Saratoga Springs—Planning Board Minutes—January 11,2024- Page 5 of 17
positive about them being there. Art said their church is willing to sit with the neighbors and
discuss any issues in a less formal way and try to resolve them.
Rev. Joe Cleveland, Minister of the Universalist Unitarian Congregation of Saratoga Springs.
Joe said he is very conscience of the cares and concerns that have been expressed by those
who we hope will be our neighbors. He believes these concerns are rooted in how much we
value nature and neighborliness. Joe said he and his congregation share these values. He
said the church they are proposing for 400 Louden are to be in service of those values. They
will foster and encourage peace and beauty in the neighborhood and in the community.
Murray Penney, 11 Sundance is a church member. Murray presented a copy of a hydrology
survey from 1990 that was done for a planner at City Hall. There are two aquifers under Bog
Meadow— one at 50 ft. depth, a layer of clay and silt, and then another layer at 100 ft. down.
Murray said he isn't sure which aquifer the neighbors are tapped into, but the church would
be willing to find out and do what's necessary to avoid any problems with the water.
Mark Bergbom, 15 Bog Meadow. Mark said he noticed the scope of the project had been
reduced and wanted to know if that could be expanded after they were approved. Mark
wanted to know if some of the future parking area could be moved closer to the existing
home on the property instead of close to Louden Road. Could it not be built in Wilton,
separate application, etc.? Regarding other churches being built in residential areas in the
city, Bog Meadows is 100% residential without anything else being built there. The church is
non-conforming to the neighborhood.
Susan Barden, Planner said that the applicant can specify the square footage in their special
use permit as proposed now or it can be based on a conceptual plan showing the square
footage. Site plan will also look at the square footage of the building. The special use permit
could have a condition that would require the applicant to return for an amendment to the
permit. If it's not conditioned, then they would have to return for a site plan amendment to
expand the building. The revised use permit would require another public hearing.
Paul Moberg, 9 Bog Meadow Run. Paul said the biggest concern the neighborhood has is
that the corner is dangerous. Paul said you can't plan parking for funerals, weddings, etc.
There will be overflow parking and there will be no place to park alongside the road. Paul
said he can't count 18 letters that went out and the ones that were sent were not sent
certified as required.
Rev. Joe Cleveland said they don't want any parking on Louden Road. He said Christmas
Eve service is like a Sunday worship service. Joe said if they predict a funeral is going to be
larger than their church can handle, they will schedule it elsewhere and have done that in the
past. Joe said they would actively work to prevent any parking on the road. Joe said anyone
who rents their space for a wedding would have to know the confines of that space. He said
he does one or two weddings per year.
Eric Lawson, 11 Whitney PI. said he is a mediator and arbitrator. Eric emphasized what Art
Holmberg said about talking with the neighbors, discussing the issues and how they can be
accommodated. He said in his experience, when neighbors sit down and have a good faith
discussion, they can work things through.
City of Saratoga Springs—Planning Board Minutes—January 11,2024- Page 6 of 17
Mark Pingel, Chair closed the public comment at approximately 7:30 p.m., and asked the
planning board members for their comments prior to continuing with the SEQRA review.
Bill McTygue reminded everyone of the possible impact on the three potable wells that the
city draws from to supplement the city's water supply during dry spells. They are located
within the Bog Meadow neighborhood adjacent to the Bog Meadow Brook and not far from
the proposed church site.
Patty Morrison had no comment.
Kerry Mayo said he sees a suburban neighborhood and a mall, and he thinks a church fits
just fine in that setting.
Chuck Marshall asked if they proposed to connect to sewer. Yes, they propose to connect
to the County sewer on the north side of Louden Rd. Other than that, he agreed with Kerry
Mayo.
Michael King said he's not sure how you preserve and protect nature by cutting down a lot of
trees and building a church and a lot of parking so that you can use it on Sunday. "That's not
my idea of preserving and respecting nature." Michael suggested that the applicant build the
required parking (13 spaces) and use valet parking for all their events. He said he would like
to see more creative thinking about lessening the impact of our footprint in this world.
Mark Pingel, Chair said he still has some concerns about traffic, but because the highest
use of the church is on a Sunday, that tends to help mitigate some of the impact. The other
concern the public has is about the visual impact of the church and is something that the
applicant should take into consideration if this is approved, especially where Mr. Matthews is
concerned.
Mark Pingel, Chair said the board is ready to do the SEQRA review. He said as the board
goes through the review, if there are any items that a board member says they should find for
a positive declaration, it will be discussed. If there is not a unanimous opinion from the
board, then each item where there is not unanimity the board will vote. Leah added that the
way the form is set up each question will direct the board's attention to a particular category
of potential impact; 1. No, or small impact may occur, or 2. Moderate to large impact. Once
the list of questions is concluded and all are answered No, or small impact, you skip Part 3
and go right to a negative declaration. If any one of those questions is answered moderate to
large, you don't skip Part 3 and there's another effort SEQRA requires of the board. Leah
said whenever that occurs, counsel typically recommends that the board have a discussion
that evening but not attempt to put together a Part 3 at that time, and take more time to allow
staff to assist in the background and draft something for the board's review and discussion at
the next public meeting.
SEQRA, Part 2:
1. Material conflict with adopted land use plan...- No, or small impact.
2. Change of use or intensity of use of land... - No, or small impact.
3. Impair character or quality.... — No, or small impact.
4. Impact on environmental qualities.... — No, or small impact.
City of Saratoga Springs—Planning Board Minutes—January 11,2024- Page 7 of 17
5. Adverse change in existing level of traffic... - No, or small impact.
6. Can increase use of energy — No, or small impact.
7. Public/private water supplies... - No, or small impact.
8. Impair Character or quality of historic... - No, or small impact.
9. Adverse change to natural resources... - No, or small impact.
10. Increase in potential for erosion, flooding... - No, or small impact.
11.Hazard to environmental resources... - No, or small impact.
Chuck Marshall made a motion for a negative SEQRA declaration based upon the
environmental assessment form provided by the applicant and assessment of Part 2 by the
board. The motion was seconded by Patty Morrison. Vote 6-0 in favor. Motion Carried.
Leah said the reason churches and schools were mentioned as being typically in harmony with
residential is because in the 1950's the highest court in the state said it's not lawful for a
community to prohibit places of worship/churches in residential areas. They can be regulated
but not prohibited. There's similar language regarding schools. Leah said places of worship
and schools are considered an integral part of the fabric of a community and it is not unusual
to see them in residential areas. The City of Saratoga Springs has not prevented churches
from being in residential areas and is complying with the law. The city has said that this
particular use is subject to a special use permit. Leah said it would not be legally appropriate
for the board to take the position that because this is a place of worship this location in a
residential area is inappropriate. It would be appropriate based on the scope or location of a
particular project or shape of a lot— site specific issues.
Mark Pingel, Chair said there are two distinctly different set of analysis — one from the
neighbors and one from the applicant — both very thoroughly done. He said they come to
diametrically different conclusions about the decision the planning board should come to. Mark
asked the board to give their comments on the special use permit in the context of whether
there are any objections or exceptions they would take against the 6 criteria for the record.
Bill McTygue said the discussions have been valuable between the neighbors and the
applicant. He said he believes the project can work and the church can be a good neighbor
and be compatible with the neighborhood and natural setting. Bill said he thinks a good healthy
relationship can exist between those people who are in the vicinity of this project and the
applicant. He liked what he heard from people from the congregation and their desire to work
with the people from the subdivision and be compatible. Bill said he finds no reason to deny
the project.
Patty Morrison said she agrees with what Bill said. Patty said she took notes and appreciates
the conversation on both sides. She said she drove past the property and feels the church has
taken consideration in how the structure will be built and reducing the footprint. Patty said she
feels the traffic impacts have been addressed. She feels there should be conversation at site
plan about a buffer between the church and Bill Matthews. Conversation/mediation between
Bill Matthews and the applicant could be very helpful. Patty said the project fits with the
character and that the project should move forward.
Kerry Mayo said he agrees with what's been said. He also agreed with Michael about parking
and said it should be addressed at site plan review.
City of Saratoga Springs—Planning Board Minutes—January 11,2024- Page 8 of 17
Chuck Marshall said this is a use that's allowed in the Comprehensive Plan with a special
permit. The SEQRA analysis was thorough with only one issue being extensively reviewed.
There are many instances in the city where churches are included in residential zones. The
project fits the overall character of the neighborhood, especially with the preservation of the 3
acres and tie into public sewer. During site plan review there should be an extensive buffer
established with 36 Bog Meadow and downlit LED fixtures would mitigate any light impact.
Chuck said he feels it's appropriate to move forward with the special use permit.
Mark Pingel, Chair listed the following items for the applicant to note:
• Special buffering next to the Matthew's property at 36 Bog Meadow Run.
• There are 2 aquifers, and the applicant will make sure the use will not affect the
neighbors.
• Overflow parking needs to be considered on the property and any alternative plans.
• Mr. Matthews' well needs to be considered during the construction phase to ensure
there is no contamination.
• There needs to be a tree plan — how many substantial trees are coming down and what
the compensation will be for that.
• A condition of the special use permit— any change to the approved plan will come back
to the PB under special use to ensure that there's public comment.
Mark recommended that if this project is approved there be serious conversation between the
neighbors and the applicant.
Leah asked for clarification regarding the size restriction and requiring the applicant to return
for an amendment to the special use permit if there were a change. Mark said if there is any
substantial deviation from whatwas approved there is an opportunityforanother public hearing.
Leah suggested that if the special use permit imposes a condition about size that it be limited
to an objective square footage. Mark agreed and proposed that they limit the building size to
4,000 square feet for the footprint. Leah clarified that the applicant would be locked into the
square footage decided at site plan review.
Kerry Mayo made a motion to approve the special use permit with the condition of a 4,000
square foot footprint limitation. The motion was seconded by Chuck Marshall. Vote 6-0 in
favor. Motion Carried.
5. #20230929 53 Putnam Mixed Use. Site Plan review of a proposed mixed-use building
including 4,423 sq. ft. commercial space, 32 residential units, and associated site work in the
Urban Core (T-6) District.
Jason Letts, owner 53 Putnam. Jason said they have been working with DEC for the last 6
years to remediate the property and are hoping to have a certificate of completion very soon.
Jason said last year they had sketch plan review with the planning board and met with the
DRB. At that point they were proposing a 6-story building, with commercial on the first floor.
They received quite a bit of feedback and are now proposing 5 stories with 32 residential
units and ground floor commercial units. Previously they offered 30% affordable housing
units and are now proposing 100% affordable housing to help enrich the community. Jason
said after meeting with local real estate experts, they decided that with grants and incentives
there would be no monetary loss to the applicant. Jason said they are looking to be a leader
City of Saratoga Springs—Planning Board Minutes—January 11,2024- Page 9 of 17