HomeMy WebLinkAbout20230216 118 Woodlawn Special Use Permit Public Comment (10)6/26/23, 11:55 AM Zimbra
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From :Susan Barden <susan.barden@saratoga-springs.org>
Subject :Fwd: Public comment in regards to Woodlawn Social
Club, Project 20230216 & 20230245
To :Julia Destino <julia.destino@saratoga-springs.org>
Zimbra julia.destino@saratoga-springs.org
Fwd: Public comment in regards to Woodlawn Social Club, Project 20230216 &
20230245
Mon, Jun 26, 2023 11:05 AM
Public comment Woodlawn Ave. SUP.
Susan B. Barden, AICP
Principal Planner
City of Saratoga Springs
474 Broadway
Saratoga Springs, NY
518-587-3550 ext. 2493
From: "Gary Hasbrouck" <gman62happy@gmail.com>
To: "Susan Barden" <susan.barden@saratoga-springs.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2023 6:09:47 PM
Subject: Public comment in regards to Woodlawn Social Club, Project 20230216 &
20230245
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Dear Planning Board Members,
The Woodlawn Ave Social Club Project brings up many relevant issues regarding what type
of club could come to fruition in the former church. In order to realize the representations of
the project provided to you by the applicant, the Board should consider "reasonable"
conditions before granting this special permit. With a tip of the cap towards believing the
assertions of the applicant, a "trust but verify" approach is recommended.
Once a "club" is approved, you have very little power to revoke the special use permit without
certain conditions being violated. Unless those conditions are spelled out and used as part of
the resolution granting the special permit, who knows what we could end up with. (Gaffney's)
First, the parking requirements and parking lot need to be tied to the use of the church as a
social club. Upon the selling of the approval (yes, this could happen), the parking lot could
not and should not be developed as anything other than a parking lot without the special use
permit being compromised. The 2 parcels need to be considered together. If the parking lot
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gets sold, the special use permit becomes invalid. No using the Woodlawn parking garage or
empty spots on the street in the future parking calculations.
Second, membership must be yearly. I've visited "clubs" in other states where liquor laws
don't allow bars to operate so you pay a cover (membership) to be a member for one
evening.
Third, no live music. You can imagine a business social club with background music, soft and
jazzy with business decisions being made. Maybe there would be a piano. Club is approved
with no restrictions on live music. The piano becomes a synthesizer joined by a guitar, drums,
bass and lots of screaming amplified throughout the neighborhood because the social club
just became a young adult hangout because they all are "like minded individuals." In fact,
music should be confined to the background only not to be heard outside the premises.
Fourth, no outside events. This would be a condition that would not allow outside events (no
matter how worthy) in either the parking lot, the club itself, and would include lots 165.51-2-
11 & 13 that are controlled by the applicant.
Fifth, about those 2 additional lots controlled by the applicant. It seems to reason that upon
approval and using the same methodology presented by the applicant, the applicant would
develop #11 & 13 in a commercial manner using the adjacent land theory. The barbershop is
in UR-3 and is commercial. The parking lot for the social club is used commercially. The
church is used commercially. Therefore, the 2 lots under control of the applicant should be
commercially used because to do otherwise would be out of character in the community. You
can see where this is going. We would be part of the downtown core by proxy.
Sixth, 120 seat capacity for a social club seems high. Considering the parking available, it
would appear the parking provided would be a little light. BUT, they have met the parking
requirements based upon square footage of the building. Would an occupancy limit be in the
powers of the Planning Board? You don't put 120 seats in a social club and not expect at least
50% of them to be filled at least 50% of the time, would you? Would one of the privileges of
membership be being able to hold a
graduation/wedding/birthday/anniversary/retirement/sweet 16/religious/political event on
site?
Lastly, the not-for-profit that will be running the entity will be responsible for raising funds for
"operational cost only" per the applicant. They will charge just enough to cover the food,
labor and utility costs. Oh, they have to cover the rent too. The owner of the building
deserves some sort of return on his investment. It all sounds like a not-for-profit venture as
envisioned by the City until it isn't. The not-for-profit appears to be a cover for qualifying for
entrance into the zoning district and getting waivers from the 10% permeable area
requirement in the parking lot along with covering the ROI for the property owner.
This social club could morph into many things the City and the neighborhood doesn't want or
could contemplate. Conditions placed on the special permit are extremely important. Should
the approval be sold or the applicant finds the social club financial metrics don't work, they
should have to come back to the Planning Board for adjustments and approvals so we don't
end up with something we didn't expect.
Sincerely,
Gary Hasbrouck
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36 State Street
Saratoga Springs, NY 12866
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