HomeMy WebLinkAbout20180111 Caroline St Apts Correspondance (2) Saratoga Springs
Preservation Foundation
October 18,2017
Mr. Steve Rowland,Chair
Design Review Commission
F o R �� City Hall
PRESERVATION 474 Broadway
FOR... . :VF
die/YEARS
Saratoga Springs,NY 12866
it
r, •r RE:24 Caroline Street
Dear Steve:
I.
II The Saratoga Springs Preservation Foundation has reviewed the application for the proposed
exterior changes and addition at 24 Caroline Street.
The Italianate style commercial structure,c, 1970,is a"contributing building"to the Broadway
Board of Directors Historic District in the National Register of Historic Places.
Matthew E.Veitch
President The Foundation appreciates the opportunity it had to provide comments and that many of its
James Cold initial concerns have been addressed. The Foundation is pleased that the historic Caroline Street
Vice President storefront entrance will be retained and that the entry to the second floor will be preserved.
Linda Harvey-Opiteck The Foundation does not object to the removal of the historic two-story rear addition,provided
Treasurer that the applicant,as indicated in correspondence to the Foundation,meets the requirements as
Alicia Czwerwinsld outlined in the ordinance and documents why it cannot be preserved.
Secretary
Caroline done The Foundation also does not object to the proposed addition. However,the Foundation feels
Cynthia Corbett that it needs a more prominent cornice than what is depicted in the submitted drawings. While
Brennan Drake several buildings south on Putnam Street do not have a cornice,an informal survey of cornices in
Adam N.Favro a.2 mile radius of the 24 Caroline Street found that 60%(16/27)of the buildings had prominent,
Liz Israel
Samantha Kercull deep cornices—some detailed,others not—see attached. The architect stated in correspondence
Douglas Kerr to the Foundation that a more substantial cornice would compete with the existing cornice at 24
Richard King Caroline Street. However,the cornice of the addition would not be immediately adjacent to the
Michelle Paquette-Deuel
Cindy Spence ornate cornice 24 Caroline Street, Furthermore,the buildings in the surrounding neighborhood
Bill Willard typically have different style cornices that rather than"compete"with each other,complement
Meredith Woolford one another and add to the overall architectural fabric of the neighborhood. Furthermore,many
of the buildings south on Putnam Street were historically more utilitarian in nature,providing
James Kettlewell services to those buildings along Broadway. The addition,which reads as an individual building,
emeritus will serve as a prominent residence,not a utilitarian service building, Thus,the building should
have a cornice that gives it more prominence.
Samantha Bosshart
Executive Director The Foundation remains concerned about the treatment of the south wall.It needs more visual
interest.The Foundation looks forward to seeing more detail regarding its treatment.
Thank you in advance for your thoughtful consideration.
Sincerely,
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Clit(01•0/404.04€.4—(761.01tel-Ai
Matthew E.Veitch Samantha Bosshart
President Executive Director
112 Spring Street, Suite 203 Cc: 24 Caroline Street Owners,LLC
Saratoga r;ngs. NY 12866Michael Tuck—Balzer&Tuck Architecture,Agent
518-587-5030
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' -ir,ttoga Spring,
Preservation Foundation
December 6, 2017
Mr. Steve Rowland,Chair
6-Wee Design Review Commission
FOR
City Hall
PRESERVATION 474 Broadway
FOP, - _:YEARS Saratoga Springs,NY 12866
7
RE: 24 Caroline Street—Exterior Changes and Construction of New Addition
k'\
. \ Dear Steve:
V
i The Saratoga Springs Preservation Foundation has reviewed the revised drawings for the
__ addition at 24 Caroline Street.
__'4.
In the letter that the Foundation submitted on October 18,2017, the Foundation expressed
concern about the cornice and the need for a more prominent treatment. and provided an informal
Board of Directors survey of cornices in a .2 mile radius of 24 Caroline Street that found that 60% (16/27)of the
buildings had prominent, deep cornices—some detailed,others not. The revised drawings show
Matthew E.Veitch
a simple cornice with a total depth of 4 1/8", which the Foundation feels is weak and not
President
reflective of the majority of buildings in the immediate neighborhood. The Foundation reiterates
James Gold its concern that the addition to 24 Caroline Street needs a much more prominent cornice.
Vice President
Linda Harvey-Opiteck In addition, the Foundation prefers the decorative detail that was shown in the previous
Treasurer drawings dated October 10,2017 —the two rows of cast stone banding above the 3 ' story
Alicia Czwerwinski windows rather than a single full-width cast stone detail directly below the 4th story
Secretary windows. The detail of the previous rending gives the building greater visual interest. The
Foundation also prefers the window configuration where the narrower windows are on the
Caroline Cardone
Cynthia Corbett outside of the ribbon of windows rather than on the inside.
Brennan Drake
Adam N.Favro Thank you in advance for your thoughtful consideration.
Liz Israel
Samantha KercuIl
Douglas Ken Sincerely,
Richard King
Michelle Paquette-Deuel 11,40tAir.......e. p:imitt
Cindy Spence
Bill Willard
Meredith Woolford Matthew E.Veitch (Samantha Bosshart
President _ Executive Director
James Kettlewell
emeritus Cc: 24 Caroline Street Owners, LLC
Michael Tuck—Balzer&Tuck Architecture, Agent
Samantha Bosshart
Executive Director Enclosures: October, 18 2017 SSPF Letter
Cornice Survey
112 spring strect, suit, 2113
SaratopA SprIng,, NY 12866
518-587-5030
Sar,ttoga Spriii $.-s-
Preservation Foundation
October 18,2017
Mr. Steve Rowland,Chair
5( ;?V''
FOR ffir Design Review Commission
City Hall
PRESERVATION 474 Broadway
!9 /YEARS Saratoga Springs,NY 12866
-1.Vir
It
RE:24 Caroline Street
ir, si
Dear Steve:
%..
11 The Saratoga Springs Preservation Foundation has reviewed the application for the proposed
exterior changes and addition at 24 Caroline Street.
The Italianate style commercial structure,C. 1970,is a"contributing building"to the Broadway
Board of Directors Historic District in the National Register of Historic Places.
Matthew E.Veitch
President The Foundation appreciates the opportunity it had to provide comments and that many of its
James Gold initial concerns have been addressed. The Foundation is pleased that the historic Caroline Street
Vice President storefront entrance will be retained and that the entry to the second floor will be preserved.
Linda Harvey-Opiteck The Foundation does not object to the removal of the historic two-story rear addition,provided
Treasurer
that the applicant,as indicated in correspondence to the Foundation,meets the requirements as
Alicia Cz-werwinski outlined in the ordinance and documents why it cannot be preserved.
Secretary
Caroline Cardone The Foundation also does not object to the proposed addition. However,the Foundation feels
Cynthia Corbett that it needs a more prominent cornice than what is depicted in the submitted drawings. White
Brennan Drake several buildings south on Putnam Street do not have a cornice,an informal survey of cornices in
Adam N.FavTo
a.2 mile radius of the 24 Caroline Street found that 60%(16/27)of the buildings had prominent,
Liz Israel
Samantha Kercull deep cornices—some detailed,others not—see attached. The architect stated in correspondence
Douglas Kar to the Foundation that a more substantial cornice would compete with the existing cornice at 24
Richard King
Michelle Paquctte-Deuel Caroline Street. However,the cornice of the addition would not be immediately adjacent to the
Cindy Spence ornate cornice 24 Caroline Street Furthermore,the buildings in the surrounding neighborhood
Bill Willard typically have different style cornices that rather than"compete"with each other,complement
m credith woolford one another and add to the overall architectural fabric of the neighborhood. Furthermore,many
of the buildings south on Putnam Street were historically more utilitarian in nature,providing
James Kettlewell services to those buildings along Broadway. The addition,which reads as an individual building,
emeritus
will serve as a prominent residence,not a utilitarian service building. Thus,the building should
have a cornice that gives it more prominence.
Samantha Bosshart
Executive Director The Foundation remains concerned about the treatment of the south wall.It needs more visual
interest.The Foundation looks forward to seeing more detail regarding its treatment
Thank you in advance for your thoughtful consideration.
Sincerely,
Matthew E.Veitch S;i ; •tha Bosshart
President Executive Director
112 Spring Street. Stitte 2(13 Cc: 24 Caroline Street Owners,LLC
Saratoga Springs. NY 12866
Michael Tuck—Balzer&Tuck Architecture,Agent
518-587-503u
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COMMENTS FOLLOWING DECEMBER 6, 2017 MEETING REGARDING 24
CAROLINE ST APARTMENTS
Thank you for your patience. Please forgive this late submission. I am learning. I
mistakenly assumed that this project was going to come up in a future meeting.
That said, the following research may prove helpful for future projects.
BLACK METAL ELEMENT IN 24 CAROLINE ST DESIGN
The proposed plan for the 24 Caroline St apartments includes a 40'H X 9'W strip of
black corrugated metal:
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This sets several precedents for the surrounding neighborhood.
PRECEDENTS SET BY 40X9' RECTANGLE OF METAL SIDING:
1. the interior stairwell has a serious visual impact on the façade
2. the façade includes an unbroken 40x9' rectangle which is black
3. the use of industrial corrugated metal as an architectural element on the façade
Looking around the neighborhood:
Comptons V Max London's -
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Sarato 11. Gelato 9 take Ave
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toga Coffee Traders 9 sowt,„ ..;;-
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Karavalli
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er
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im
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PRECEDENT ONE: THE STAIRWELL HAS A SERIOUS VISUAL IMPACT ON
THE FACADE
All downtown buildings more than one story high necessarily have a stairwell (or
elevator).
In general the stairwell is set in such as way as to not visually impact the façade. Let's
look around:
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This is the ONLY building in the immediate neighborhood, new or old, where the
stairwell/elevator shaft clearly has impact on the fagade as viewed from the street.
In this case, the enclosed elevator shaft is behind Caffe Lena's big, lovely new 2 -story
entrance with a courtyard.
The elevator shaft is a pale cream color like a cloudy sky, and it blends in with the back
end of the building.
There is a cornice up top as a nod to neighborhood historic style.
All of this means the visual impact of this enclosed elevator shaft on the street view is
minimal.
PRECEDENT TWO: THE FACADE INCLUDES AN UNBROKEN BLACK 40x9'
RECTANGLE
Let's look around the neighborhood at the use of black.
BLACK AWNINGS
Black is frequently used for awnings — which are thin, at an angle, and sometimes flutter
in the wind — so have a lighter more delicate visual impact.
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BLACK AS A BACKDROP FOR SIGNS
Black is frequently used as a flat surface color to offset a sign:
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BLACK USED FOR WINDOW AND DOOR MOULDINGS
See above examples as well.
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BLACK USED FOR COLUMNS AND METAL DECORATION
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THERE IS NO PRECEDENT FOR AN UNBROKEN SIMILAR SIZE BLACK
RECTANGLE
In this neighborhood, black has been used for many decorative elements but never as an
unbroken expanse of similar size to 40x9'. The columns, mouldings, sign panels and
other decorative uses of black are relatively delicate and smaller.
PRECEDENT THREE: THE USE OF INDUSTRIAL CORRUGATED METAL
ON THE FACADE
Choice of the material for the 40x9' rectangle:
- ----------------
INTERNATIONAL, INC
METAFOR CONCEALED FASTENER CCRUGAT'L__'D METAL SID!NG,
3" SPACING, BLACK
This corrugated metal is the sort used for roll -up garage doors, below shown in an indoor
commercial storage facility:
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The brown metal grate shown is in fact approximately 32'H x 8'W which is 250 square
feet.
This is almost as large as the black corrugated metal 40'H x 9'W proposed, at 360 square
feet.
EARLY BUILDINGS ON PUTNAM STREET
Let's look at buildings between Caroline and Phila in photos dating from the early 1900s.
(All early photos below are from the Bolster Collection at the Saratoga Springs History
Museum.)
Bolster Collection, Saratoga Springs History Museum
Above we see the City Tavern building on far left. The "Saratoga Taxi" building stands
where the Library parking lot is now.
Saratoga Taxi is an industrial sort of building, but it has a quirky honey elegance from the
windows and a fun shape:
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Now look at the other direction, towards Bailey's building on the corner. Saratoga Taxi
(today the Library parking lot) in the middle:
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Look at the circular sign on left which says "Motorcycles."
Now look below, at the circular "motorcycles" sign on left:
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There was a tram line running through the today's Library parking lot and curving onto
Putnam.
Note the buildings across the street in today's Putnam Den parking lot. This (above)
industrial "Laundry" and "Lumber Yard" sort of building has its own elegance, with the
cornice and nice windows.
Below, the NY Telephone Company did in fact have a building (note the Bell on the
hanging flag) on Putnam, but it was a far more elegant building than today's National
Grid building.
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Bailey's building had a big awning:
For fun, let's look up Caroline St around the corner, to see the businesses that now have
become taverns.
The below photo is dated 1944:
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Putnam Street in fact had a sort of homey elegance. It wasn't as upscale as Broadway but
it was full of homey buildings with elegant touches.
All of the craftsmanship shows human effort. These structures were created before
modern machines existed that could craft an expanse like the black metal at 24 Caroline
St.
MID -20TH CENTURY INDUSTRIAL BUILDINGS
The current National Grid building came later.
Its metal grate thus represents the later, mid -20th century phase of Saratoga history.
i
I
RECENT FACADE CHANGES ON CAROLINE STREET
In the past ten years, there have been many facade changes around the corner on Caroline
Street. New paint, new siding and trim, new windows, the new entrance to Esperanto, the
new railing of the City Tavern entrance.
Let's look at them for their use of black. All of the below photos show recent facade
changes.
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ALL OF THESE RENOVATIONS INCORPORATE BLACK ACCENTS.
NONE OF THESE RENOVATIONS INCORPORATE LARGE INDUSTRIAL
ELEMENTS
The only large expanses of metal are the metal columns — which echo the early columned
porches in the downtown hotels.
FINAL NOTE: THE BLACK METAL ELEMENT PROPOSED IS NOT HIDDEN
IIXT cuAnn«l
Let's look back at the proposed black metal design element.
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Note that this is the West facing fagade. It will get afternoon sunlight.
Rumara Jewett
rumara(a,mac.com
518 424 4198